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#1 2005-12-13 23:15:14

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Prelem dwg for the A126e

The basic without reflector or extended size baffle. Would work in smaller rooms angled slightly away from rear wall.
ron

http://gainclone.com/phpBB2/files/a126e.jpg001_123.jpg

Hummmm! got the roxio music player in the pic. Sorry guys.

Last edited by ron (2005-12-13 23:16:45)

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#2 2005-12-13 23:57:27

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

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#3 2005-12-14 01:02:23

landpirate
Member
From: San Jose Ca
Registered: 2005-09-08

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Ron is there going to be a layertone model and how he doing on the other one. Just wondering?
                                                       LP

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#4 2005-12-14 10:22:47

one1speed
Member
Registered: 2005-07-28

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Look sharp, and easy to build.  Thanks for the efforts.

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#5 2005-12-14 18:02:28

Jeremy
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Cool.   I just ordered a set of 126e's from madisound but they are out of stock at the moment.   Design looks good, it's nearly time to make some sawdust, baby!

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#6 2005-12-15 19:37:19

layertone
Member
From: Sacramento CA
Registered: 2005-08-31
Website

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

I haven't checked in for a while, been workin' on the Austin II's.  The A126e would be perfect for my homelss 126e's I have laying around.  Ron, you're going to keep me busy for a while!  Just wondering if you'll do your drawing magic for a layered version.  Thanks for all your wise & knowledgable contribution to the fullrange & acoustics community.

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#7 2005-12-15 22:31:30

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Just wondering if you'll do your drawing magic for a layered version.

Let me get the conventional design bugs worked out first.

Thanks for all your wise

I have several exes and several bosses that dont think so.

ron

Last edited by ron (2005-12-15 22:33:02)

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#8 2005-12-18 10:35:22

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Third pass. Had to tighten the flare rate on the 2nd& 3rd expansion to get the first TL action down to calc 48Hz. Horn action starts to roll in @ calc 71.4 Hz and flattens out at 84 Hz (wall/floor loaded). However i would still suggest a add on baffle width of 10.78" or keep the horn baffle within 1.96' of the rear wall otherwise there will be a dip in the FR of around 3 db between 384 to 573 hz. This makes the vertical plane of the mouth(measured horz) around 7.5" from the rear wall.
This IMO is one of the difficulties in smaller horns. The baffle width is hard to adjust to the roll off of the horn action. I know its not in fashion to design in wider baffles as everone wants taller slender speakers, so all i can come up with is the current HT speaker designers are using some sort of BSC circuit or extending the sub action wayyyyy up (which i doubt).
ron

http://gainclone.com/phpBB2/files/a126e.jpg003_131.jpg

On an OT subject. I happen to notice i spend more time watching DVD movies currently than listening to my system. I hate to admit it ,but its time i started looking into a DIY HT system as what i have heard in various stores just leaves me lacking. I may be able to do a better job.

Last edited by ron (2005-12-18 11:17:57)

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#9 2005-12-18 13:41:49

dfreemansc
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

In my room, I have more available height than I have depth (not literally, but you know what I mean!), so it's imperative to minimise a speakers' 'intrusion' into a room, although it can grow taller.
I've taken Rons' design and taken one fold out of it to make a forward-firing pseudo-Hedlund.
(Please see the 'Horns' gallery - fe126e butchered, to see a rough Photoshop hack-around to try to show what I mean - sorry, I haven't worked out how to link to images)
a126e%20butchery.jpg
AHA! Got it - simple really - wish I was any good with Photoshop though!

Advantages to this are a reduction in depth by about a third, but I'm aware that I've messed up the rear-firing use of the rear wall.
Question is: how much would this mess up the response, and is it possible to 'get around' problems caused?
(It does seem to address the baffle-step issue.)

Cheers
Dave
PS Sorry Ron for butchering a gorgeous design!

Last edited by dfreemansc (2005-12-18 18:29:53)

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#10 2005-12-18 16:39:16

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Ran across my old "Hedlund inna box" dwg the other day. Let me see if i can get it to post.
The baffle step IS a problem in smaller width horns, otherwise you have to run the horn action up mid 500 hz and then have to get 50 hz out of the low end is possible, but i dont believe it will sound well.

Sitting here listening to some of the old big band sounds (Pink Panther playing now)Moonlight Serenade,In the Mood ect ect. Hay , some of the older recordings just sound so much more dynamic than the new music.I guess i just like the "lots of horns" sound with the big kettle drums.
ron

Last edited by ron (2005-12-18 17:10:32)

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#11 2005-12-20 11:13:53

Jeremy
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

ron wrote:

On an OT subject. I happen to notice i spend more time watching DVD movies currently than listening to my system. I hate to admit it ,but its time i started looking into a DIY HT system as what i have heard in various stores just leaves me lacking. I may be able to do a better job.

Man, with the crap that passes for audio out there, how could anyone *not* do a better job? I'm thinking the same thing, maybe 5 fe167's and a sub.....   One thing I have noticed with DVD movies, is that the audio seems to have been mixed for a theater sized room.   I find I actually have to fudge it, and end up using a SS amp with "Loudness" on, or bass boost to even things out a little.   Audio recordings don't require this sort of nonsense.   What's going on here, and what is the solution?  Do 5.1 channel amps have some signal processing built in or what?

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#12 2005-12-20 14:27:06

JohninCR
Member
Registered: 2005-08-10

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Let's take DFreemanSC's idea to the extreme and engineer pivoting joints at the CC and 2 folds to enable adjustable shapes to fit any room or placement.  Add a large base for stability in any position and the adjustability would be limitless, plus the "cool" factor would be extreme.

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#13 2005-12-20 15:08:21

ghpicard
Member
From: Argentina
Registered: 2005-07-28

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Jeremy wrote:
ron wrote:

On an OT subject. I happen to notice i spend more time watching DVD movies currently than listening to my system. I hate to admit it ,but its time i started looking into a DIY HT system as what i have heard in various stores just leaves me lacking. I may be able to do a better job.

Man, with the crap that passes for audio out there, how could anyone *not* do a better job? I'm thinking the same thing, maybe 5 fe167's and a sub.....   One thing I have noticed with DVD movies, is that the audio seems to have been mixed for a theater sized room.   I find I actually have to fudge it, and end up using a SS amp with "Loudness" on, or bass boost to even things out a little.   Audio recordings don't require this sort of nonsense.   What's going on here, and what is the solution?  Do 5.1 channel amps have some signal processing built in or what?

IMO, it is just that some DVDs have been mixed to make you feel like in the theater and not like in the place where the action happens... IIRC, 5.1 channel amps have, besides heavy equalizing to make sond feel "natural" in spite of coming out of tiny boxes, a lot of settings to allow the user to setup the perceived size of the room to his/her taste. Some DSP job.

Cheers
   Gastón

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#14 2005-12-20 15:13:59

ghpicard
Member
From: Argentina
Registered: 2005-07-28

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

OT... and perhaps combustible text follows.

Alan Parsons said he was going to do his next record a fully 5.1 one, written, executed, recorded, etc., with 5.1 in mind. As his music strayed away from what I liked in it (my tasted changed some, too), I doubt I will give it a try.

Gastón

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#15 2005-12-20 15:17:39

ghpicard
Member
From: Argentina
Registered: 2005-07-28

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Going back to the topic... ron, do your simulation software simulate the folds in the horns or do you instead approximate to straight horn plus some losses and reflections ?

Gastón

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#16 2005-12-20 18:10:42

Jeremy
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

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#17 2005-12-20 19:49:51

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

do your simulation software simulate the folds in the horns or do you instead approximate to straight horn plus some losses and reflections ?


No its simming the bends.
GM and I were exchanging posts several years ago when i noticed that upon wave expansion there was a cooling effect and upon compression there was a heating effect. This led me to use several programs that delt with surges in petro chem piping and vessels. Modification of the programs developed answers to several questions i had about the conversion of pressure to heat.
In a controlled vrs rapid change in expansion/compression of waves there was a greater loss of the end energy in rapid changes along a controlled expansion.
Think this way. If you placed an expanding cone on an exaust system and in the middle of the expansion you placed a restrictor that was smaller than the inside dia of the cone at that point, then the restrictor and surrounding material (thermal conduction) would be at a greater temperature than a cone without the restriction(be a hell of a lot louder too). This rise in temperature is an energy conversion of pressure to heat.
  Any time you bend a pressure wave you lose some energy, a gradual bend has less loss than a sharp bend as well as less distortion of the wavefront. The point is to have as little bending as you can get away with. I find that reflections have less overall effect than the pressure changes along an expanding vent but then again a reflector changes the pressure. If reflections become  a critical issue then you have to shape the pressure/wave guide to allow a minimum of loss.

ron

Last edited by ron (2005-12-20 21:14:57)

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#18 2005-12-20 21:03:14

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

I posted some PDF drawings of the new FE126E horn.   Comments

Looks a damn site better than my chicken scratchings.I just gotta get all the white out off my screen.
ron

Last edited by ron (2005-12-20 21:04:12)

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#19 2005-12-20 22:58:13

hitsware
Moderator
From: Sacramento, Ca.
Registered: 2005-08-06
Website

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Jeremy wrote:

One thing I have noticed with DVD movies, is that the audio seems to have been mixed for a theater sized room.   I find I actually have to fudge it, and end up using a SS amp with "Loudness" on, or bass boost to even things out a little.

Don't that make sense?
Movies usually depict a large physical space.
(at least as big as a theater) smile
And SPL's far above comfort.
Would you like 'flat' frequency response
(with attendant SPL) of a car crash in your
living room? I doubt it.)
(nor the Boston Philharmonic)
That is exactly what 'loudness compensation'
does...........Gives a tonal response that
simulates a much louder event. Sorta like
'at a distance' ... but not really
..............mike

Last edited by hitsware (2005-12-20 23:03:07)

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#20 2005-12-20 23:20:50

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Just as a thought. If there was a time delay (later point on the phase) then the signals would arrive at a later time which would give the effect of a larger room volume.
Now one step greater. If this time difference was adjustable then the apparent room volume could be adjusted all the way to ,and probably beyond,reverb effect (around .010 seconds).
I believe that an adjustable time delay can be used to tune the effect to the room and perferences.

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#21 2005-12-20 23:28:46

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

Let's take DFreemanSC's idea to the extreme and engineer pivoting joints at the CC and 2 folds to enable adjustable shapes to fit any room or placement.  Add a large base for stability in any position and the adjustability would be limitless, plus the "cool" factor would be extreme.


A design nightmare.
ron

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#22 2005-12-21 00:14:47

hitsware
Moderator
From: Sacramento, Ca.
Registered: 2005-08-06
Website

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

ron wrote:

Just as a thought. If there was a time delay (later point on the phase) then the signals would arrive at a later time which would give the effect of a larger room volume.
Now one step greater. If this time difference was adjustable then the apparent room volume could be adjusted all the way to ,and probably beyond,reverb effect (around .010 seconds).
I believe that an adjustable time delay can be used to tune the effect to the room and perferences.

Thank You, Carver Jr. ........
(Your parantage is blossoming) ....... mike

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#23 2005-12-21 00:19:20

JohninCR
Member
Registered: 2005-08-10

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

ron wrote:

Let's take DFreemanSC's idea to the extreme and engineer pivoting joints at the CC and 2 folds to enable adjustable shapes to fit any room or placement.  Add a large base for stability in any position and the adjustability would be limitless, plus the "cool" factor would be extreme.

A design nightmare.
ron

Ron,

I put some more thought into it and using 2 4"ID 90degree elbows and 2 6"ID elbows at the 2 folds could work pretty easily.  As long as those constant diameter sections don't have too much negative impact, then ripping a pieces of 4", 6", and 8" PVC and cutting out a wedge to form tapered section would result in a circular horn pathway all the way through the final conical segment of your design.  Add a CC to one end and mouth to the other and you have a horn.  The trickiest part would be ripping the PVC lengthwise, which is dangerous because PVC likes to close up when you rip it.  That does make closing it afterward to form tapered segments much easier though.

Now what do you think?  Wouldn't the benefit of a circular shaped pathway offset the impact of the short straight segments at the folds.  It would also make interchangeable CC's and facing the horn mouth in any direction desired simple matters.

John

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#24 2005-12-21 05:39:51

dfreemansc
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

ron wrote:

Ran across my old "Hedlund inna box" dwg the other day. Let me see if i can get it to post.

Was it this one?

fe-108_677.jpg

Cheers
Dave

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#25 2005-12-21 08:36:45

ron
Member
Registered: 2005-07-27

Re: Prelem dwg for the A126e

NO, however that was the orig base for the Dallas but using the 108esigma.
Prob with the old Hedlund inna box is it was drawn on an old funky program that i am having trouble converting. I still probably need to refine the flow and such so if i have time i will just re-draw it. However i really believe the Austin (conventional) would be a better application for the 166e.
ron

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