Fullrangedriver Forum

I guess he realized there is no such thing as a full range driver and gave up.  Realistically the only opportunity to come up with something that may be better than is what is already available is a wide ranger specifically designed for OB.  If you guys are interested in that route then I'm game for multiple pairs.  I'm most interested in a good quality coax 10" with a woofer Q of about .7 and 6mm or more of excursion.  The only way I'd be interested in a non-coax is if someone comes up with a whizzer than actually sounds good.  A non-whizzer can't go high enough, B200 eg needs a tweet.  The other option is a 4-4.5" driver, think Fostex 108 or CSS FR125, but the only way to make real bass is a huge complicated to build RLH or accept significant IM distortion.  Let's face it, the precision and design experience required to build a bargain basement priced AER or Lowther 8" isn't realistic.

Innerconflict wrote:

Nothing from china yet?  As for the other comapny I need to get a business license or they will not work with me as I wwas told the the tech help. Eminence is a great company. I just need to get some thing in order. 2 family memebers died this thrusday what a shock. I will be trying to do aomething in the fall. I need to shop around more.Phil

karlsonkab wrote:

(not Phil)

Hi Blake

whomever starts a tread can delete the whole shabang.
-like to know what specifics were heard from Eminence and from the folks in China.  If dealing with EM then might be good to ask someone who's has made runs of custom made drivers as to what can be juggled from stock menu.

This is true. You can delete the whole tread. I did not want to have to much on this web site. I would think it would be called a hog. Eminence said to get a business licenses and then they will talk speakers. As for china nothing yet. Yes asking aound would be a good idea. Thanks phil

phil wrote:

Innerconflict wrote:

....I need to get a business license or they will not work with me as I wwas told the the tech help.

That's probably their way of saying they don't want to deal with you.

In small unincorporated towns, there is no provision for a business license. I went through that whole mess with Parts Express.... they eventually relented

Hi JohnInCR - Hemp's 10 coaxial might carry a pretty good price (?) - wonder what its Qts is set for?

--like to try a 10" Karlson 14" wide but have no saw setup - 15" for me might be better tradeoff as not sure which 10"coax might sound good in that application.

how much xmax is Darrel putting on his 10cx? - can't things gargle after a couple of mm stoke carrying voice wideband?

Freddy

lets hope for good sound in upcoming 10 coax - which compression drivers?

have a few vintage (Emilar 175, Altec 806/07) plus B&C DE25 & Eminence APT/Cd8/2002/AD1001 and Selenium 205ti/210ti but not tried B&C on coaxial - Hemp is using Radian (?) where would you like  HF to rollin on 10"

Last edited by karlsonkab (2007-01-27 13:17:27)

JohninCR wrote:

Realistically the only opportunity to come up with something that may be better than is what is already available is a wide ranger specifically designed for OB.  If you guys are interested in that route then I'm game for multiple pairs.  I'm most interested in a good quality coax 10" with a woofer Q of about .7 and 6mm or more of excursion.  The only way I'd be interested in a non-coax is if someone comes up with a whizzer than actually sounds good.  A non-whizzer can't go high enough, B200 eg needs a tweet.  The other option is a 4-4.5" driver, think Fostex 108 or CSS FR125, but the only way to make real bass is a huge complicated to build RLH or accept significant IM distortion.

I mostly agree. A driver built specifically for OB is what I am thinking about. I have some plans drawn up to build if I ever get around to it.

I am more interested in a 12" than a 10" , as it moves alot more air with the same amount of excursion. Also don't want a tweeter , to avoid x-over , etc. If you want more bass from the driver, rather than looking for one with more excursion , why not build a baffle that will support the bass frequencies you want ? Unless it is too big for your taste/room , of course. I just can't see excursion making up for lack of front/rear wave seperation. A narrow baffle is gonna have a very high rolloff frequency , and the longer excursion MAY help a little , but more likely cause problems in mid/treble area.

A small driver can sound quite good at low volumes, but lacks the ability to portray live sound levels with any accuracy. I've heard some small speakers that were quite impressive (totem comes to mind) for the size of the driver, and I've built multiple 5 1/4" 2-ways that worked very well for their size. They just don't provide the oomph or presence that a larger speaker can . And if you want a little speaker to do BIG bass , you have to have such a HUGE enclosure that it becomes ridiculous (at least to me). Why not just use a larger speaker with a simpler designed cabinet/baffle ?

I'm a lazy bigmouth. I need to get off my arse and build some of the stuff I daydream about ! Then I wouldn't have to complain about this stuff anymore !

..........................Blake

Last edited by Innerconflict (2007-01-27 15:55:09)

Blake,

I agree big sound takes a big driver.  I have 15's for that.  I'm dreaming about something marketable.  Big baffle don't interest me in the least, and double the baffle only gets +6db, the same as double the excursion.  I need less minimum width for any commercial idea.  I can make up for baffle size anyway by going rearward, where 1" equals 4" of flat baffle width as long as you know how to eliminate cavity resonances.  I can get pretty close to where I want with an 8", so a 10" with added excursion should get me there.  Once I have the right driver, then I can focus on optimizing my OB-RLH cab to suit it.

KK,
I have a feeling Darrel's 10" is going to come in with an Fs of about 60hz, making a sub a requirement.  I want 35-40hz.

karlson seem to lower excursion but one has do deal or like the type of sound they produce (theres some room for tonal adjustments) and K15 size F6 outdoors ~50-55Hz so one is missing one or two octaves from the bottom

offer to buy you cheap playwood for K15 - not sure if you'd like it for effort involved and a 15" with low mass/lower qt is needed

btw - heres a nice page on using ARTA (which think will run in demo mode using screenshots to save graphs)

http://soundhobby.com/measurementsystem.htm

Last edited by karlsonkab (2007-01-27 14:04:33)

no - not able to -- but don't think that's much problem.  air mass in the aperture may matter with regards to tuning so if that's the case, perhpas doubled wings would affect the Z? - I might double that up on a little coupler and see if any real effect on Z curve.

a central vent besides tuning a bit higher than sidewall will sound different so one playing with K15 might allow the two vent panels to butt to form two side gapped vents - not sure if would be better.

there's certain angles of baffle and reflector which have less null than others - but that's only part of the sound. 

The front shelf in K15 partially corrects a dip around 250 and must control some mix of how much reflected stuff reaches into the upper half of the front coupler to be re-emiited though the aperture.  (with horn on top it might be good to use less front shelf or no shelf?)  A rear shelf can be used as a lowpass choke - I think Carl Neuser sometimes has them 0.2*SD or so and provided a formula for range

btw - 21.5" wide k above ran pretty well with a low mass 0.25 qts 18 - little bit more ripe than 15 but fun - there was usually no rear shelf but tried a front shelf for measurements and subjective comparison to K15 and a front board made it sound more like K15 using 15" driver

Last edited by karlsonkab (2007-01-27 15:00:15)

can U get P-audio/etc. shipped to CR "cheap" or better borrow a 15" coaxial?

I (think) understand that you're thinking of thick wings with large roundover.  The reverberant component in a k is good and sometimes problematic.  Moray has built k15 size and little coupler so might be helpful

Carl N. might had tried roundover and had one K15 with bevel.  My Acoustic Control 115BK for bass guitar have mild rounding aperture edge and not sure if little bit does much. He's working out some math on aperture inductance.

as  baffle is tilted more forwards, sound will get sharper but also a couled cavity peak may sharpen too.  Karlson are normally built with 20-30 degrees baffle tilt.  Original K15 woud be a reference and maybe not all that bad with appropriate coax (EFud has 12" Jensen coax with round horn in K15)

for 18" to work decently, ,mass probalby needs to be lower tha 160 grams.  Walt De Jong used AA Craaft 18" for sound reinforcement in K15. Those 18" only had 77 grams moving mass

maybe K are mainly novelty things?

K15 plans -

http://home.earthlink.net/~buddhaboy2/K15.PNG

Last edited by karlsonkab (2007-01-27 16:03:07)